PTE Tax - CALIFORNIA Form 3893 (PTE) and Instructions - Is it Lacerte, or me losing it?

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
March 7, 2022
2 replies
194 views

For this discussion, ignore the effect of income tax liability (LLC or S corp) and estimated tax.

The issue is illustrated below with 100S Line Numbers. Same result for 565 and 568.

If Form 3804 shows an amount, it flows to 100S Line 29. Let's say the amount = 10K

My logic:

1. If the payment has YET to be made, Line 35 should be zero, Line 40 Tax due should be 10K. Voucher 3893 (PTE) should be printed. Voucher 3893(ES) also printed.

2. If the payment has been made, line 35 should be $10K, Line 40 Tax Due should be zero. NO voucher 3893 (PTE) for 3/15. Voucher 3893 (ES) for 6/15 printed.

Lacerte is the opposite. If I enter $10K on Line 35, the balance is zero (correct), but voucher 3893 (PTE) and 3893 (ES) are BOTH printed with instructions.

If I enter zero on Line 35, the balance is $10K. Voucher 3893 (PTE) and instructions are NOT printed. ONLY 3893 (ES) and instructions are printed.

I tried to explain to Lacerte and Kenneth kept telling me I was wrong. Was I?? Am I losing it?

I believe CCH does it "My Way"...

Lacerte Tax

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IntuitRebecca

Level 6

Hi there,

I think (but am not certain) that what you're describing may be the result of how we implemented the PTE payments this year in order to be able to include the PTE remaining balance due in the total tax due line when you have the return set up for direct debit.

I'm curious if you have your test return set on screen 3.1 for CA electronic payment? Since that setting impacts how the PTE tax flows this year.

Assuming the return isn't paid electronically - when you're referencing entering amounts on line 35, which input are you using exactly? If it's screen 48.011, "Payment voucher 2021 Form 3893[O]", entering -1 there will suppress the voucher in all cases.

This article might explain what I mean better, in the section for "To make or record PTE payments": https://proconnect.intuit.com/community/state-taxes/help/california-pte-tax-in-a-100s/00/195467

joshuabarksatlcsAuthor

Level 9

How Lacerte implemented the payment and instructions was NOT "user friendly" to taxpayers who pay the FTE Tax with check. Also it is NOT (my understanding) how CCH implemented it. It defies logic that for a client who has yet to pay the tax, I would NOT get Lacerte to automatically print the voucher and instructions; for a client who has NO 3893(PTE) payment, the voucher and instructions would be printed.

Getting to your point. 100S Line 35 input is on Screen 48 under PTE Elective Tax Payment Vouchers(s), the fourth Item - that is “Payment voucher 2021 Form 3893[O]". This is regardless of the payment method - EFT or check.

If EFT is set up on scree 3.1, Lacerte generates Form 8453-C, showing the overall balance and NO mention of Form 3893. The balance is thus the Form 100S balance, a combined result of the regular tax, less estimated tax payment plus Form 3893(PTE). Thus if the estimated tax is OVER the income tax, the overpayment would net against the PTE Tax. This is okay. I can make do with Skipping the details about how the balance is actually the result of the PTE Tax. No itemization needed to give to the client. It's just that when the client opts to pay with check that the return, instructions and 3893(PTE) are NOT consistent.

I come here for kudos and IRonMaN's jokes.

IntuitRebecca

Level 6

Thanks for the explanation, I'll be sure to pass this feedback along to the team. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the below - I want to make sure I understand the issue entirely.

Setting aside any EFT/WebPay scenarios - I think the disconnect here is that Lacerte generates the full amount of PTE on line 35, unless it's overridden. The 3893 (PMT) should generate with the full amount from line 35 (or, line 35 less any amount entered as "Pre-payment already made") .

It sounds like you're expecting line 35 to be $0 when the client hasn't paid any PTE yet; so you use the PTE Elective Tax Payment Vouchers(s) override to set that line to zero, but then you're stuck with no voucher or instructions. Is that correct?